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The One Probiotic That Treats Sinusitis

 (UPDATED AUGUST 2017) Probiotics and sinusitis treatment go hand in hand. In the last few years researchers found that one probiotic (beneficial bacteria) that chronic sinusitis sufferers lack and that treats and cures sinusitis is Lactobacillus sakei. The researchers Abreu et al found in their 2012 study that not only do sinusitis sufferers lack L. sakei, they have too much of Corynebacterium tuberculostearicum (normally a harmless skin bacteria), and they also don't have the bacteria diversity in their sinuses that healthy people without sinusitis have. In other words, the sinus microbiome (microbial community) is out of whack (dysbiosis). A number of studies found that there is a depletion of some bacterial species, and an increase in "abundance" of other species in those with chronic sinusitis. Of course researchers are working on a beneficial bacteria nasal spray to treat or prevent sinusitis, but that will take a while.

Luckily Lactobacillus sakei is found in some foods (such as some brands of live fermented kimchi), and in "starter cultures" (for sausages) such as Bactoferm F-RM-52 and B-2. One reason it is used in sausage starter cultures is because it dominates over and inhibits growth of pathogenic bacteria, including Staphylococcus aureus and Listeria. [Note that treating sinusitis with beneficial bacteria (rather than just antibiotics, corticosteroid nasal sprays, and surgery) is a major shift or paradigm change in sinusitis medical treatment, but it is the future in sinusitis treatment.]

More than 4 1/2 years ago I started using a very easy kimchi sinusitis treatment (basically dabbing and smearing kimchi at certain stages of fermentation into my nostrils like a very messy eater) and found that it cured my chronic sinusitis of many years within several weeks. Obviously it contained L. sakei. Then the rest of my family also tried the kimchi treatment and were also cured of chronic sinusitis! It felt miraculous, especially because it was so easy to do. (See SINUSITIS TREATMENT page for our background story, and see SINUSITIS TREATMENT SUMMARY page for different treatment methods.)

After 4 1/2 years we still feel great! Generally all 4 of us only need to treat again with a product containing Lactobacillus sakei after a virus which goes into sinusitis, or if for some other reason we feel like we're sliding into sinusitis. The last 2 years we've needed to do this far less than the first year. Because we no longer have chronic sinusitis, we have NOT taken antibiotics or any other bacteria killing spray or product (such as xylitol) for the last three and a half years. We do not use cortisone or antihistamine nasal sprays either.

A number of you have contacted me to report your own progress with various sinusitis treatments. Thank you! The following are the results from those commenting on this web-site or to me privately. People used terms such as "miraculous", "transformative", and "fabulous" when they had positive results with a product containing L. sakei. I am also starting to hear from you about other some other probiotic (beneficial) bacteria species that may treat sinusitis. When a treatment works, then all sinusitis symptoms go away, including post nasal drip, sinus headaches, "clogged ears", bad breath, and sinusitis-related coughs. Even tonsil stones! (Please note that trying such products to treat sinusitis is self-experimentation - effects can be positive or negative. One should always be very cautious.)

OVERALL RESULTS: The majority of people writing to me with results reported positive results (chronic sinusitis greatly improved or totally gone) from some form of L. sakei treatment. Most have been from the USA or Canada, but successes have also been reported to me from Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and Africa. But since it's from self-experimentation and not a clinical trial, then I don't know the actual percentage of positive results. (Please write!) Some of the people reporting success have had multiple operations, some currently have deviated septums, some with nasal polyps, and all have had long-standing chronic sinusitis, some for decades. Those same chronic sinusitis sufferers also reported that the same treatments also worked after acute sinusitis (e.g., after a cold). It seems that after colds, etc. they (including myself) develop acute sinusitis again and need re-treatment (apparently the L. sakei doesn't stay or colonize in the sinuses from earlier treatments) . But a minority of people reported that nothing has helped and there could be a variety of reasons for this (see below).

KIMCHI - A number of people reported that kimchi helped them (without naming brands), while others named brands that helped them. And one person reported a homemade kimchi worked great (he was finally symptom free after 8 years). A few have even mentioned that kimchi has helped sinusitis with fungal problems. Kimchi brands that people reported helping their chronic sinusitis: Sinto Gourmet brand kimchi, Mama-O's Premium Kimchi, the white Napa kimchi (as well as the cabbage kimchi) made by Choi's Kimchi Company (in Portland, Oregon), Farmhouse Culture Kimchi (in California), Ozuke Kimchi (in Colorado), Sunja's Kimchi  (medium spicy cucumber kimchi and mild white kimchi), in the United Kingdom the brand Mr Kimchi, and in Australia Kehoe's Kitchen white kimchi. We still use Sunja's Kimchi (the first year we used Sunja's medium spicy cabbage, but when that stopped working we switched to the medium spicy cucumber kimchi, and now also the mild white kimchi). I'm sure some other brands also contain L. sakei.

(Please note that not all kimchi brands or types of kimchi within brands contain L. sakei - finding one that has it is due to self-experimentation. We found that kimchi may contain L. sakei from about day 14 to about 2 to 2 1/2 months (from the day it's made). When the kimchi contained L. sakei we felt the same or started feeling better within one or 2 days. If we felt more mucusy or phlegmy over the next 2 days, or the acute sinusitis kept getting worse, than it did not contain L. sakei.)

Some people wrote in that kimchi did not help them, including various types of Sunja's kimchi. One person said that Hawthorne Valley Kim Chee had no effect, and that it was more like a sauerkraut product. (Sauerkraut had not worked for anyone until recently one person said that they improved with a homemade sauerkraut, and another person with a sauerkraut made with garlic carried by Costco). Some researchers feel that it's the garlic in kimchi that encourages L. sakei growth, and sauerkraut typically doesn't contain garlic.)

BACTOFERM F-RM-52 - A number of persons reported that a mixture of bottled water and the sausage starter culture Bactoferm F-RM-52  (Lactobacillus sakei and Staphylococcus carnosus), has successfully worked for them. This product is produced by the Danish manufacturer Chr. Hansen and sold by various sausage-making suppliers. It is reliable and effective, like an army that marches in to attack the sinusitis causing bacteria. (See SINUSITIS TREATMENT SUMMARY page for details). Most use it by dabbing/smearing or spooning the mixture into the nostrils, while others report using it in a neti pot (e.g., first Comment on the CONTACT page), and one person even a nasal aspirator (bulb syringe) for a large one time dose. Sometimes a side effect on the day we used the product was a dry mouth and throat (and they can be very dry when we overused it - so it's important to use only a little in a treatment). The person who used the nasal aspirator reported a temporary decrease in her sense of smell.

Bactoferm F-RM-52 contains a second bacteria besides L. sakei. Very little is known about Staphylococcus carnosus - but it is considered non-pathogenic, and also no one has reported negative effects from it. Such are the perils of self-experimentation - effects are unkown.

However, several people (one in Europe) reported that Bactoferm F-RM-52 did not work for them, but then the issue is - did the L. sakei die during shipping or did it not work for some other reason? One possibility is that  L. sakei does not work against all types of pathogenic bacteria. Even my family has had problems with Bactoferm F-RM-52  - one time it died during shipping (that batch had zero effect when we used it).

---[Please note: One sausage culture seller (sausagemaker) has been so upset (afraid of lawsuits?) that the Bactoferm F-RM-52 they sell has been used "off label" to treat sinusitis that they now have applied their own warnings to the back of the product package. The warnings state that the product also contains manganese sulfate monohydrate, which is used in tiny amounts as a food additive (a food grade nutritional supplement). However, the warnings listed are from the Safety Data Sheet for people handling large batches of manganese sulfate monohydrate (for "science education applications" or "laboratory and manufacturing use"). It's as if they are warning that the package contains nothing but the powdered form of manganese sulfate monohydrate, in case people might stick their heads in the package and inhale for prolonged periods.]

B-2  - Several persons from Australia and New Zealand have reported good results with B-2. The manufacturers of Bactoferm F-RM-52 also make a Lactobacillus sakei only product called B-2. It is part of their SafePro product line of bio-protective cultures for meat. It is used exactly like the Bactoferm F-RM-52, but a person who has used both products liked the effects of B-2 more than Bactoferm F-RM-52 ("less irritating and more effective").  I have not seen this culture available anywhere in the U.S., but I know B-2 is available in New Zealand and can be (and is) shipped  to Australia.

BACTOFERM  SM 160 - One person (outside of North America) tried Bactoferm SM 160, which contains Lactobacillus sakei, Staphylococcus carnosus and Debaryomyces hansenii, and is finding very good results in treating chronic sinusitis that he had for years. The third microbe Debaryomyces hansenii is considered "non-pathogenic", and is common in food products (cheeses, processed meat, and early stages of soy fermentation). One study said D. hansenii secretes toxins capable of killing other yeasts, and it is used on an industrial scale to produce vitamin B2. However, it is a yeast species (a fungi) so it is unknown if it can cause problems (and so he's being cautious in its use, and so far all is good).

PRIMAL SK NATUR 50 - The European company VAN HEES makes a starter culture PRIMAL SK natur 50 with the same ingredients as Bactoferm F-RM-52. The ingredients are: Lactobacillus sakei and Staphylococcus carnosus, with a carrier base of dextrose (to feed the bacteria when used as a starter culture). They ship to various European countries.

BITEC STARTER LS 25 (also called BITEC LS-25) - The product BITEC LS-25 (which contains the same 2 bacteria as Bactoferm F-RM-52) is available in Europe, but the ingredients listed are Staphylococcus carnosus first and Lactobacillus sakei second. This product is also sold as a sausage starter and is made by Frutarum (a global "flavor, fragrances, and fine ingredients" company) that is based in Israel and Europe.

SOME L.SAKEI ISSUES: I still think of L. sakei as fairly fragile - it is killed off by antibiotics, by oxygen within a week of opening a kimchi jar, and even the culture Bactoferm F-RM-52 package says that it dies off within 2 weeks at room temperature (therefore store in freezer). Please note that the L. sakei in the product can also die off during shipping if it takes too long or some other reason. Thus we order 2 day shipping (if possible) and hope for the best.

WHY DOESN'T L. SAKEI WORK FOR SOME PEOPLE? Some other possibilities to explain why some people trying L. sakei products has not resulted in their sinusitis improving is that perhaps some other "keystone species" (a very important microbial species for a normal healthy community) besides L. sakei is  missing in their sinus microbiomes. Or perhaps they have microbes or biofilms that the Lactobacillus bacteria cannot overcome, even though it is viewed that some Lactobacillus species are anti-biofilm and anti-pathogenic. It is unclear whether the results are different if there are also nasal polyps. [Researchers now suspect that those with nasal polyps also have a problem with "primary inflammation".] We (modern medicine) know so little about the normal healthy sinus microbiome that there are many unanswered questions. (NOTE: click on the Category SINUSITIS for more posts on recent sinusitis research.)

PROBLEM WITH A PRODUCT SUDDENLY NOT WORKING, OR OVERUSE - Several people reported that a kimchi brand or L. sakei product that originally worked for them suddenly stopped working or not as well, but usually it had been the only product used for a long time. We think this might be an issue of "too much of certain microbes" - and we (family members) have found that switching to another product (e.g., from one brand or type of kimchi to another), or from a L. sakei product to kimchi, or swishing multi-strain probiotics (the powder) in the mouth has corrected the situation for us. (Finding what works is self-experimentation, and varies from time to time). And months later, we can use the original product once again.

BOTTOM LINE: When feeling good or healthy, stop using the L. sakei product. Use L.sakei products sparingly - only as needed (e.g. after developing sinusitis). L. sakei seems to be necessary for sinusitis treatment for most people, but there are also other important microbes in the sinuses - a whole community.

OTHER PROMISING PROBIOTICS - Seven people have  reported that multi-strain probiotics  (but they did not contain L. sakei) treated their sinusitis. One woman tried Pure Encapsulations Probiotic 50B in her nose (I assume similarly to how we use Bactoferm F-RM-52) and reported major improvement. This product (which must be refrigerated) contains the following bacteria:  Lactobacillus acidophilus, L. rhamnosus, L. plantarum, Bifidobacterium longum and B. lactis. Another person successfully treated his sinusitis by mixing a saline solution with a probiotic containing: Lactobacillus acidophilus, L. plantarum, L. rhamnosus, Bifidobacterium lactisL. casei, B. bifidum, B.breve, and Streptococcus thermophilus. Note that the first 4 bacteria listed here are the same as in the first person's probiotic. (Scroll down to the Comment written by Martin for more details).

Some researchers are focusing on Lactobacillus sakei, L. rhamnosus, L. plantarumL. casei, and L. Johnsonii in the treatment of sinusitis and sinus health (see below Promising Probiotic Nasal Sprays and also the June 29, 2016 post).

OTHER PROBIOTICS MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BENEFICIAL EFFECTS - On the other hand, a few people (including my family members) reported trying various multi-strain probiotics containing various Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium species in the nostrils, but it did not treat the sinusitis, even though it resulted in some improvement usually (but not always). Since sinusitis sufferers don't have the bacteria diversity of healthy people, and the sinus microbial community is different in each person, then adding what are viewed as beneficial bacteria to the sinus microbial community might help some people.

The possibility remains that perhaps one or more bacteria species, or a combination of species, has effects similar to L. sakei. But which ones or which combinations of bacteria? (Just remember, trying L. sakei products or multi-strain probiotics is self-experimentation, and results are unknown and can vary - can be positive, negative, or no effect.)

STILL UNKNOWN: People have written in about 3 products that contain L. sakei, but no one has reported results. (1) From a person in Australia: Danisco's CHOOZIT® FNR 1 - a cheese starter culture that contains L. sakei and Staphylococcus vitulinus. The bacteria S. vitulinus is considered benign, but I could find almost nothing about it. So self-experimentation results are totally unknown - could be negative or positive. (2) Multi-strain Probiotic by Innovix Labs - tablets containing 26 probiotics, including L. sakei. However, I have 2 concerns with this product: A) This product does not require refrigeration, but all other L. sakei products require refrigeration (even the freezer), because at room temperature L. sakei dies within a few weeks. B) L. sakei is considered anaerobic  - doesn't live when exposed to oxygen. So...while the L. sakei may be alive when the product is produced, is it alive weeks or months later at room temperature?  (3) Pro-Kids ENT by Hyperbiotics are chewable tablets containing 5 strains of bacteria, including L. sakei and S. salivarius K12. I have the same concerns with this product as with product #2. In addition, the S. salivarius K12 has caused problems for some people (scroll down to "Problems With BLIS K12?") If purchasing product #2 or #3 I would consider refrigerating them to slow down the decline of bacteria numbers (which always happens over time), and add a desiccant to deal with the moisture from refrigeration (if it's not already included).

PROMISING PROBIOTIC NASAL SPRAYS - The original sinusitis researchers (Susan Lynch, A. Goldberg) are still working on a probiotic nasal spray containing L. sakei. Another research group (at the Univ. of Antwerp in Belgium) is developing a nasal spray with Lactobacillus rhamnosus, Lactobacillus plantarum, Lactobacillus caseiand other Lactobacillus species, including L. sakei. They are calling the nasal spray "Oronasopharyngeal probiotics", and say that these Lactobacillus  species (especially L. rhamnosus) are "anti-pathogenic and antibiofilm agents". 

NO EVIDENCE FOR JUST SWALLOWING PROBIOTIC SUPPLEMENTS: Evidence (my family, people writing in, research) so far has been that only directly dabbing/smearing/spraying probiotics in the nose, or even swishing a paste of probiotics in the mouth may help treat sinusitis. I have not found any studies finding that ingesting/swallowing a probiotic pill has helped sinusitis (including a 2009 study looking at swallowing L. rhamnosus tablets 2 times daily for 4 weeks).

PROBIOTICS TO AVOID - The product NatureWise Maximum Care Time-Release Probiotics: 30 Strains, 30 Billion CFU contains a number of probiotic bacteria, including L. sakei. Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium bacteria are generally viewed as beneficial. However, it also contains E. faecium (Enterococcus faecium) which is considered very controversial. This is because strains of this specific bacteria show multi-drug resistance (including to antibiotics). (See my Sept 2, 2016 Comment after the August 30, 2016 post for more information.)

PROMISING PHAGE THERAPY - Some researchers in the USA and Australia are currently testing phage therapy to see if it could be used as a treatment for various conditions, including chronic sinusitis. A bacteriophage is a virus that infects bacteria, and the name literally means "bacteria eater". Phage therapy is the therapeutic use of bacteriophages to treat bacterial infections. See the June 3, 2016 post Phage Therapy May Help Sinusitis Sufferers for more information. The authors of one study I posted there said that they had found evidence for people having "virus-like particles" in their sinuses, which they thought were bacteriophages.

PROBLEMS WITH BLIS K12 ? - On a side note, two of us, plus one person writing in, tried BLIS K12 bacteria tablets (containing Streptococcus salivarius BLIS K12) for several weeks because scientific research had found it to be an immune booster, that it is good for oral health, and it lowers the incidence of upper respiratory infections. However, from the first tablet (ate it by slowly dissolving it in the  mouth) there were problems - feeling phlegmy and yellow mucus. After several weeks, we stopped the experiment and had to do kimchi treatments to recover. Two persons reported similar negative effects with PRO-dental tablets, which also contains BLIS K12. The message here is clear: that specific bacteria did not react well with our sinus and oral bacterial communities. Remember, whenever one introduces new bacteria into the human organism, there can be positive or negative effects.

PLEASE WRITE!  I would really like to hear how you are treating and curing your sinusitis, especially chronic sinusitis. Or even what hasn't worked. It all adds to the knowledge base. And let me also know if you've had additional problems or complications such as sinus operations, nasal polyps, a fungal problem, diagnosed with antibiotic resistant bacteria (for example: Pseudomonas aeruginosa), etc. Has L. sakei or another probiotic helped? Write to me privately, or can comment after any post.  (Note that most comments are after this post, the SINUSITIS TREATMENT SUMMARY page, the CONTACT page, and  other sinusitis posts - see category SINUSITIS).

169 thoughts on “The One Probiotic That Treats Sinusitis

  1. Amy

    Hello. Found your site from Chris Kresser article on chronic sinusitis recently. Very interesting. Could you tell me the ingredients for the Sunja's cucumber kimchi? I tried looking online but the ingredients I found did not say it contained cucumber - so I assumed it was wrong. Does it actually contain cucumber? You mentioned a recipe that someone had luck with. Could you post a link to that recipe? Thanks for blogging about your experiments.

    Reply
    1. Sima

      According to the jar label, Sunja's Medium Spicy Cucumber Kimchi contains:cabbage, cucumbers, carrots, red peppers, leeks, green onions, garlic, ginger, crushed red pepper, sea salt.
      Unfortunately I have not received a good kimchi recipe (one that contains L. sakei and treats sinusitis) from anyone. But if I get one, I will post it.

      Reply
      1. Kelly

        That's really interesting that the Bactoferm F-RM-52 can result in dry mouth and sinuses. I was thinking that if anything would dry out sinuses it would be the hot spices in the kimchee. (According to tradtional chinese medicine, an excess of hot, pungent food or spice is very yang -- very drying, unless balanced with yin foods.)

        Does the Bactoferm F-RM-52 have a spicey taste to it?

        Thanks in advance!

        Reply
        1. Sima

          Yes, the kimchi has a temporary decongestant effect from the spices. The Bactoferm F-RM-52 has no taste or smell, but there's a lot of L. sakei in it - thus it can have a drying effect for a while.

          Reply
          1. Kelly

            Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you.

            That's a little concerning as I'm so dry overall, but I'm thinking it's because I've been eating too low fat for too long, But maybe if it's temporary I could handle it.

            Have you heard of anyone who's developed dry eyes as a result of the bactoferm?

            Reply
            1. Sima

              No, I have not heard of anyone developing dry eyes from Bactoferm F-RM-52.
              We only felt dry temporarily in the throat and sinuses when we overused it. Normally using it just gives a regular good feeling - no more dripping phlegm or mucus and the sinuses feel better. L.sakei is normally found in healthy sinuses.

              Reply
              1. Beth

                This is vague and possibly unhelpful, but at some point in the past year I ran across a mention of L.sakei as present in a healthy lung micro biome. Which would make sense, given that the sinuses drip down into the lungs.

              2. Sima

                Very interesting. And just recently I posted about a study in which L. sakei appears to be in the gut of most people, and again it appears to be beneficial.

      2. Madge

        I have daily heartburn if I eat fermented foods or spicy/pungent foods. Turmeric also makes me feel awful, even in small amounts. And I have allergy/sinus problems which my ENT feels are mold based (mainly the sinuses around and above my eyes...nose is clear). We live near a river, which doesn't help where molds are concerned. I'm hoping that a probiotic for the nose will help me. Inflammation is not good!

        Reply
  2. Chris

    Mara, I just received Bactoferm F RM 52 and the paper that came with it states it is a combo of L. Curvatus and S. carnosus. It doesn't mention L. Sankei at all! Did you notice this? Will call manufacturer today. Also people can order Sunja's kimchi online.

    Reply
    1. Sima

      Please check the actual package of the freeze dried product Bactoferm F-RM-52. It should state what it is that you received and that it has Lactobacillus sakei in it. If that is OK and the right product, then it sounds like they (the place you ordered it from) just stuck the wrong directions (one little sheet of paper) in with the package. I actually did not get any directions at all with the last shipment I received. Just put the package in the freezer.

      Reply
    1. Sima

      It sounds like the company you ordered from changed the packaging. Typically somewhere on the Bactoferm F-RM-52 package it says "freeze dried Lactobacillus sakei and Staphylococcus carnosus" and sometimes the manufacturer's name Chr. Hansen (a well regarded company both in the USA and Europe). You can always call up and ask who is the manufacturer.

      Reply
    2. Cristina

      Anyone looking for L. Sakei, I just found this online, sold to drink or add to whatever you need apothexhealth.com. They are making a powder of soley L Sakei, that will only be shipped Mon-Wed so it will not overheat and maintain it's integrity.

      Ordered it and I'll try to remember to return here, in order to follow up how it worked for me.

      Reply
        1. Sima

          Initial reports (of people that have tried various L. sakei products) are that this product is very mild (weak). Also, one person reported that the L. sakei had died off by the fourth time they used it (in one week's time).

          Reply
  3. Chris

    Yes, I used Renew Life's Ultimate Flora with nine strains. And I put Bactoferm in the neti pot too. I am interested in oil pulling for its ability to remove bad microbes from the mouth and throat since they are linked to the sinuses. I am also trying ingesting several billion probiotics daily.

    Reply
  4. Sima

    The first year I (and my family) ate kimchi several times a week (maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup with a meal), the second year less, and this year only occasionally. This is because we generally only eat it when we have an open jar (for sinusitis treatment - which this year is rarely needed), and we also noticed during the first year that eating it made absolutely no difference in treating sinusitis. But it's a great health food (cabbage, spices)and I should go back to eating more.

    Reply
  5. Joanne Kalt

    Through the years I've tried everything for sinus infections and nothing but antibiotics helped. When I read about kimchi helping I tried that too. To my utter delight and relief, Sunja's white kimchi worked a miracle! I bought another 3 jars and keep it in the refrigerator for the next bout.

    Reply
  6. Marius du Preez

    Thank you for your very helpful site and related information on an alternative and hopefully more sustainable approach to treat chronic sinusitis. Through the years I also had my moments with sinusitis and considered myself an expert to treat the condition but I could never "cure" it, at best "manage" it. During the course of 2015 however it was Sinusitis 1, Marius 0...

    My question is: I can rather easily get Bactoferm SM-160, F-RM-52 needs to be shipped specifically from Denmark. SM 160 contains Lactobacillus sakei, Staphylococcus carnosus and Debaryomyces hansenii. Posts refer to success with products containing the first two with L.Sakei the real bacteria you are looking for. But is the yeast Debaryomyces hansenii ok to irrigate the nose with?

    Reply
    1. Sima

      I don't know if it's OK. You are the first person to mention this product. and I have not seen this product on any American site.
      I did some quick research and it appears that Debaryomyces hansenii is considered "non-pathogenic", and is common in food products (cheeses, processed meat, and early stages of soy fermentation). One study said D. hansenii secretes toxins capable of killing other yeasts, and it is used on an industrial scale to produce vitamin B2.
      The medical literature said D. hansenii may rarely cause human fungal infections or catheter-related bloodstream infections, but perhaps it may occur even more rarely because it is confused with other species, thus misidentified (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2566122/).

      So it's a big unknown, especially because sinusitis sufferers have sinus microbiomes that are out-of-whack.
      But on the other hand, shipping from Denmark may cause the L. sakei to die during shipping, but at least many users, including myself, have not found any problems so far with Bactoferm F-RM-52. For me personally, I would be hesitant adding another unknown microbe to the mixture I put in my nostrils.
      When looking at pending patents (being tested currently) of nasal probiotic products that are anti-pathogenic and meant for treatment of sinusitis, there is a focus on Lactobacillus species - especially L. sakei and L. rhamnosus.
      No matter what you decide, I recommend that any L. sakei product be used cautiously, like a "very messy eater", especially if it is unknown if the L. sakei is alive in the mixture.

      Reply
  7. Marius du Preez

    Thank you very much, think I'll try it but I will be careful. I don' really have a good alternative option.

    Reply
  8. Marius du Preez

    I have been pollinating my sinuses with Bactoferm SM 160 (contains Lactobacillus sakei, Staphylococcus carnosus and Debaryomyces hansenii) for about a week and so far so good. After years of chronic sinusitis, symptoms are almost gone! I still see signs of minor infection but mucus secretion and post nasal drip almost back to normal, trust another week or so and everything will be normal again. Question: Is it advisable to still irrigate with saline solution e.g. Salex while L.Sakei is still colonizing? If yes, what about adding small quantity of baby shampoo to the saline solution? The reason for this is that sometimes my nose is not 100% clear yet.

    Reply
    1. Sima

      This is great news!
      I really don't know if irrigating with saline solution (salt, baking soda, water) has any negative effects on Lactobacillus sakei. My family did it the first year - but we always had at least one hour between a treatment and saline solution irrigation. We no longer use saline solution because we no longer need it.
      However, I would not use baby shampoo because it has negative effects on bacteria - and L. sakei is bacteria.
      By the way, after we use Bactoferm F-RM-52 several days in a row, we find that we continue improving even after we stop using the Bactoferm F-RM-52 mixture. And then re-treat if necessary.
      Also, nowadays I may have a little yellow in my nasal mucus sometimes, but if there are no other symptoms and I feel good, then I ignore it - because all is fine.

      Reply
  9. Amber

    Someone mentioned buying Sunja's Cucumber Kemchi online because I can't find it anywhere in my area. Does anyone know if it comes in ice if shipped directly form their company. If not, wouldn't that kill the L sakei in it? Thanks!

    Reply
    1. Sima

      Yes, it can be ordered online, but asking for recently produced (in the past month) kimchi and quick shipping is best. It is not shipped in ice because my understanding is that refrigeration is not necessary initially. This is why I would try brands from local stores first.

      Reply
  10. Brian

    Has anybody ever used New York brand Kimchi? and does it contain L. Sakei? I bought some and started last night. i felt more open in my sinus region after using it. But this morning i felt pressure in the sinuses, moreso than what had been before I even did a treatment.

    I have also ordered L. Sakei direct from a sausage making website and now await delivery. I was on antibiotics a month ago and just discovered this website. I am hopeful that I can restore normal flora in my sinuses.

    Reply
    1. Sima

      It sounds like the spices and garlic in the kimchi had a temporary decongestant effect. But perhaps none or minimal L. sakei in this jar of kimchi.

      Reply
      1. Brian

        Thanks for the reply Sima. The strange thing is that even though I had what I believe to be a sinus pressure headache, my passages remained open. it's possible the spices are just decongesting things as you said.
        I used it again last night and my sinuses were wide open again, moreso than I think I have felt in many months. But the pressure headache feeling remained again this morning even though I am not congested. I'm not sure if it's a result of the kimchi or a side effect of singulair medication I have began taking in recent weeks which I intend on discontinuing. I will continue to update on my results.

        Reply
        1. Cheri F.

          On occasion I've had times with sinus headache that made me squint with eye pain too, and would, oddly make me almost narcoleptic in little bouts, BUT my breathing "seemed" clear. I would put in the spout of the neti pot and be so surprised to find I couldn't pour saline through. I think we can can have individual sinuses blocked like cement and causing pain, but others clear at times. Does this sound plausible?

          Reply
  11. Martin

    Thanks for this information! I have suffered for more than four weeks this year with a sinusitis infect. Years before also. However, I thought give it a try based on your information and created a saline solution with intestine probiotics. The probitic contains Lactobacillus acidophilus , Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus plantarum, Lactobacillus rhamnosus, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Bifidobacterium lactis, bifidobacterium breve and Streptococcus thermophilus. Based on the probiotic information leaflet it was a mix with approx. 50 billions of probiotic in 250ml saline solution. After around one hour I thought my nose is dancing samba and tons of yellow slime come out of my nose for around six hours. After this event only clear slime for half a day and since this the sinusitis was gone. Amaizing effect! It is no four week since this test and I am taking every day this saline solution with approx. 12 billions as a protection against colds around me. So far no issue with my nose or sinusitis anymore. Thanks so much for this hint!

    All the best from Germany.

    Martin

    Reply
    1. Michael

      Martin--

      Do you know the concentration of the saline solution you are using? Is it .9% (normal) saline, or a hypertonic solution?

      Also, are you willing/able to publish the name of the probiotic so I may see if I can get it here in the US?

      Vielen Dank! 🙂

      Michael

      Reply
    2. Cheri F.

      I wish we had LIKE and little heart buttons here, for some of these posts, like on Facebook. Okay, I'm half kidding, but only half. My spirits SOAR when I read success stories like yours, Martin! Thank you.

      Reply
    3. Russ

      Martin, Was is the intestine probiotics that you used, can you provide more information on the product?

      Thanks Martin and good to hear of your success.

      Reply
    4. Victoria

      May I ask you Martin what was this probiotic product that you got ?
      I am using kimchi for chronic sinus infection after reading all of Mara's articals. Want to try that too.
      Did you do nasal spray with it or neti pot ?

      Reply
  12. Paul

    I have suffered with chronic sinusitis for the past 6 years. I have had surgery 3 times to try and solve this, it never did and usually resulted in infections which were treated with prednisone (anti- cortisteroid) and various anti-biotics . After about a year and a half from the first operation the the eosinophilia sinusitis then developed into eosinophilia pneumonia (lung biopsy in hospital) and blood tests showed the white cell count being sky high. I was admitted to hospital, 3 nights in intensive care and a month total spent there. I lost a lot of weight (not from the hospital food) and very nearly died from this as my lungs were saturated with eosinophilia cells.
    For the past 2 years I have not taken any antibiotics, have followed a very healthy almost paleo diet - no dairy, eggs (IGG tests indicated i should not have any in my diet) take probiotics and supplements regularly.
    I ordered the B.E.S.T. process Trace Minerals from Amazon and used them for over 2 weeks and although I did feel an improvement after a few days they didn't work. I then tried the kimchi treatment. Because I live in Australia I wasn't able to order the brands you specify through the internet, so I made my own. I tried this for a few days and again felt a slight improvement but it didn't work. After 18 days of being drug free and trying these natural treatments I feel the pneumonia returning after shortness of breath, fever and sweating last night and will have to start taking the prednisone again to get the eosinophilia cells back to normal.
    I am very interested if anybody else has had a similar experience and if so how they treated it particularly if it was naturally. This does stem from the sinuses and I am hoping there might be a natural cure for it without prednisone and its side effects.

    Thanks for all the good information you have been providing
    Paul

    Reply
    1. Sima

      Whew...you've been through a lot. So far no one has written in with a similar story, but it would be great to hear from others.
      I found it interesting that you had a slight improvement for a few days with kimchi because that sent bacteria up to the sinuses. But the problem with kimchi is that it is unknown how much L. sakei (if any) it contains.
      Please check this post now and then because I update possible sinusitis treatments as more information comes in from others.

      Reply
    2. Sxxxx Wxxxx

      Have you been tested for MARCoNS (multi-antibiotic resistant staph)? It's more common than doctor's seem to understand, almost never tested for, and lives in the sinuses. Tends to come from folks with pets, especially dogs. Very, very hard to treat.

      Reply
      1. Paul

        Thanks for the reply. No I don't think I have been tested for MARCons. In fact I'd never heard of it until you brought this up. I have had blood tests previously for pet dander, dust and a few other things, telling me I was not allergic to any of these . We have a dog and cat so I might take a look at this.
        Thanks

        Reply
      2. Cheri F.

        I've been around LOTS of dogs 24/7 for many years and my sinuses are worsening. How expensive is testing for this? Getting a doc to test for it may be difficult if it's expensive.

        Reply
  13. Kelly

    Months later I have yet to try l. sakei or kimchi, but have decided to take the plunge, dry sinuses or not. My sinuses just don't drain -- they NEVER run -- or anything, but this chronic infection has drained the life from me.

    This morning I found a link between dust allergies and l. plantarum, and also found a study (in mice) showing that the plantarum was found in kimchi. So if some have an unknown issue with dust mites, perhaps that's another reason that people are finding benefit from kimchi?

    Here's the study (and there are others):

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22726349

    Reply
    1. Sima

      Interesting. Thanks. The bacteria L. plantarum are also in the probiotic supplements that people have found to help sinusitis.

      Reply
    2. Sxxxx Wxxxx

      Kelly,

      Have you been tested for MARCoNS (multi-antibiotic resistant staph)? It's more common than doctor's seem to understand, almost never tested for, and lives in the sinuses. Tends to come from folks with pets, especially dogs. Very, very hard to treat.

      Reply
  14. Fran

    I tried Fem Dophilus today from reading all this. Good results! I gave up on L. sakei after trying meat, sake and kimchi. Fem Dophilus treats E. coli, and I read that E. coli was found during surgery for someone's nasal polyps and infections. I also read it was a normal nasal bacteria. The other probiotic strain in it is L. reuteri. Both help with UTI issues (kidney was its 1st application) as well as digestion. Well, maybe this is all related to what happens in the gut! Plus I did read L rhamnosus can help sinuses. Anyway, after years of horror I had been treating my sinuses with essential oils in sinus rinse, which had at last kept a fierce sinus/jaw/dental/ear infection at bay. It was better than Minocycline packed in my upper teeth, meds in sinus rinse, allergy meds, sprays, etc). It never killed all of the infection but 2-3X a day stopped the destruction. Well: now I used a whole capsule in Neilmed saline sinus rinse. No discomfort, & it started thinning the mucous immediately!!! I want to "repopulate", so I'll keep trying it. I'm so excited that I already posted this on my FB page, talkhealthtome. It's a few posts down where you'll see a med student's personal technique for better sinus rinsing called "Flip & Turn" - a technique that has been helping reduce biofilm & gets the upper sinuses better while protecting your ears. May you find what works for you!

    Reply
    1. AM

      Fran - could you please tell me which essential oils you were using in your sinus rinse for your sinus/jaw/dental infection that helped? I have something similar and nothing has worked so far. The pain is ridiculous. Thank you!

      Reply
  15. Fran

    Oops I mean that L. rhamnosus (in Fem Dophilus) is normal in the nose. It is still helping. By the way I remember once when I bought a fresh batch of kim-chi at a farmer's market which did help & helped other issues as well. Thanks for postig which brands have L. sakei.

    Reply
    1. Sima

      I suspect that Lactobacillus rhamnosus may be giving you the good results. That's the main bacteria in the nasal spray for sinusitis being developed in Europe, and the common bacteria in all the multistrain probiotic supplements that people had good results with.

      Reply
        1. Sima

          You're correct, I had forgotten that research - that was in the post that I did in May 2014 reviewing the latest medical sinusitis research: "Lactobacillus rhamnosus was not found to be effective against sinusitis." The original study link http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19201289. However, in that study the patients took L. rhamnosus orally (ate it) rather than spraying it into the nose. (Thanks, I updated this post today pointing this out.)
          And yet researchers in Europe are currently working on a nasal spray using Lactobacillus rhamnosus. Surely they have research results supporting L. rhamnosus??? Which is why I still think that it may be a good probiotic (but still unknown).

          I just quickly reviewed the medical research literature for probiotics + sinusitis, and sinusitis + bacteria for the last 2 years and did not see any new probiotic (beneficial bacteria) sinusitis research. Very disappointing. And nothing more on L. rhamnosus.
          So right now it is unknown which bacteria species in probiotic supplements mixed with water and dabbed/smeared in the nose are giving good results to those writing in.

          Reply
  16. Fran

    PS Also ordering 6 of Sunja's medium cucumber kim chi right now. Will try to use each in 2 days. Is it still working for everyone? 20C or 68F is L. sakei's ideal temp in production, and viability decreased "sharply" at 80 & above. In cold weather I'd chance ground shipping but it was almost 90 lately here in Texas so doing 2nd day air. Research re: temperatures in producing L. sakei: 68F (20 C) ideal temp; viability loss at 80 http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs002530050003#page-1

    Reply
    1. Sima

      Unfortunately it's hard to know if L. sakei is present in kimchi unless one tries it and gets beneficial results. Yes, people are still having success with different kinds of locally available kimchi (including cucumber kimchi) throughout the U.S. Good luck!

      Reply
  17. Brian

    Hi!
    I was wondering how you use the kimchi to apply it in your nose?
    Just dip a q-tip in to the liquid in the jar and then swab the inside of your nostrils?
    Thanks!

    Reply
  18. Tellico00

    Will the salt in NeilMed 8 oz spray bottle effect L Sakei? I use this method usually morning and nights. Would adding L Sakei to the bottle along with the salt packet be beneficial? The solution seems to flush out the sinus more than just the nostrils.

    I have very thick mucus continually and usually have to use antibiotics in the Spring and Fall. Twice I have been in the hospital for pneumonia.

    Reply
    1. Sima

      I (and family members) never used salt solution (the Neil Med packet) at the same time as L. sakei because salt is somewhat antibacterial.
      The first year we did use saline solution every day, but at least one hour apart (or more) from when we used L. sakei. We felt that this way the L. sakei had a chance to travel up to the sinuses without being flushed away. But we kept wondering about this precise issue and so stopped using daily saline solution by year 2 (we also didn't need it anymore).

      We used Mucinex Maximum Strength 12 hour in the evening when suffering from extra thick phlegm/mucus (only contains Guaifenesin 1200 mg) because it thins the phlegm/mucus.

      Reply
      1. Joanie Reisfeld

        I wonder if you broke open a Udo's pill and put in salt solution in Neil Med bottle, if it would help. Been thinking about trying this.

        Reply
        1. Sima

          Not with salt (salt is antibacterial)- just mix the powder with distilled, boiled, or bottled water. One could also dab/smear this mixture in the nose (the bacteria would travel up the nostrils on their own to the sinuses).(See Sinusitis Treatment Summary page.)

          Reply
  19. Robin Wu

    Hello Sima - thanks for your continued work and sharing of information - its really much appreciated. I am in the UK where it is (seemingly) not possible to obtain the Bactoferm FRM-52 or the recommended kimchi brands. I have tried making my own kimchi (delicious) but not successful (for which could be many reasons!). I have just come across this starter culture though -LS 25 Starter Culture for sale. Appears to be a form of L. Sakei - (and just L. sakei) but that has perhaps been specially adapted for sausage making. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3709151/
    Any thoughts? Ive ordered so I will report back on how I get on. Thanks again - fascinating site and information!

    Reply
    1. Sima

      Thanks.
      I looked at the article which pointed out that L. sakei has many strains and some are used as sausage starter cultures. The L. sakei in sausage starter culture Bactoferm F-RM-52 and in vegan kimchi are definitely different strains, but both work. Probably the Korean Lactopy product is another strain. In a July 2, 2014 post I reported:"Currently there are over 230 different strains of L.sakei isolated from meat, seafood, or vegetables from all over the world." Currently it is unknown which work best in the sinuses.
      Hopefully the product you try works.

      Reply
  20. Peter

    L. sakei as fairly fragile - it is killed off by antibiotics, by oxygen within a week of opening a kimchi jar, and even the culture Bactoferm F-RM-52 package says that it dies off within 2 weeks at room temperature

    How does it survive at body temperature?

    Reply
    1. Sima

      There's a lot we don't know about the sinus microbiome (community of microbes), including L. sakei. We do know L. sakei is anaerobic (lives in the absence of oxygen).
      One possibility is biofilms of beneficial bacteria, because recent research found that the majority of healthy people also have biofilms in their sinuses (as do those with chronic sinusitis). But unfortunately the researchers did not test what was in the biofilms of healthy people (see post). Different bacteria than in those with chronic sinusitis? We just don't know...

      Reply
  21. Meg

    Hi there. I am in New Zealand and therefore considering either the B-2 product or Kimchi. When struggling with sinus pain and headaches I currently use a saline rinse with a drop of Johnsons baby shampoo which supposedly helps break down the biofilm. I do this with a neti pot. Should I cease this while experimenting with l. sakei?

    Reply
    1. Sima

      I would not use both at the same time. The baby shampoo is meant to be anti-bacterial or antibiofilm, while the point of using B-2 or kimchi is to add bacteria to the sinus microbiome.
      L.sakei dominates over pathogenic bacteria that are causing sinusitis symptoms, and is probably also anti-biofilm.

      Reply
  22. Houman

    Sima,

    Do you know of any experiences with mixing a small amount of Lactopy in a Neti pot or sinus irrigation system?

    As well as the amount that should be used?

    Thanks

    Reply
    1. Sima

      Nope - don't know any details. But to be cautious in self experimentation, here are some steps according to level of caution: 1) most cautious -rubbing paste in mouth or swishing in mouth (L. sakei and bottled water), 2) dabbing/smearing a little bit (mixing it with bottled water first) in nostrils, 3) spooning a little bit of that mixture into nostrils, and 4) mixing it in neti pot.
      I (and my family) have personally never tried a neti pot or a product in a saline rinse, even though we know others have.
      We are also especially cautious with a new product because we don't know at first if the L. sakei is alive in that batch.

      Reply
  23. Tom P

    Interesting thread here. I’ve eat a lot Kimchi and have treated my sinus cavity with multiple orders of BFM52. Although I noticeably feel generally better overall from eating the Kimchi, neither have specifically improves my chronic sinus infections. I have advanced CFS, with typical infections lasting months at a time, cycling back and forth from bacterial to fungal. For reference, my sinus pathogens are RX antibiotic resistant. So when I find something that works, it’s nothing short of a miracle. Currently, I have found incredible success preventing and even knocking out horrible infections using a concoction of essential oils administered via an aroma therapy device. A couple of things to keep in mind if you want to try this. First, using the aroma therapy device nearby you will unlikely be effective. I use the aroma therapy device like a nebulizer, by keeping nose as close as possibly to the source of mist, thereby getting maximum concentrated strength. A slight discomfort is good, too much or too little is not. Bring sinus closer/farther from source quickly changes concentration. Secondly and more critical, is finding the right combination and quantity of oils that work for you. I started by using 12 essential oils total, based on effectiveness in killing bacterial/fungal pathogens, but YMMV. Also, I discovered preventive measures is far better vs waiting like a sitting duck for the next acute infection. For me, 5 min/day on the aroma therapy generally keep my sinuses clear from acute infections.

    Reply
    1. Sima

      Thanks for the insights regarding chronic sinusitis in CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome). In your case, it sounds like more is going on than just the sinus microbiome being out of whack (dysbiosis) which ordinarily occurs in chronic sinusitis (which is why adding microbes such as L. sakei works as a treatment).
      Another example with more going on is sinusitis with nasal polyps - there the nasal polyps add a level of inflammation that researchers are just trying to grapple with (see post).

      Essential oils are considered anti-microbial (antibacterial, antifungal), and it appears that they are destroying/dealing with pathogenic microbes in your CRS.(See here.)
      Interestingly, other people with chronic sinusitis have written to me saying that essential oils did not help them or they only helped for a while.

      Reply
    2. Amanda

      Tom, you're basically using a portable nebulizer with young living Thieves oil? What EOs. And in the end we do need the right probotic species in out sinus for true healing

      Reply
    3. richard

      Tom you may find this thread useful
      http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads%2Fpost-hpv-vaccine-cfs-25-cured-by-treating-their-nasopharyngitis-with-zinc-chloride.48647%2F

      The researcher, Osamu Hotta, looked at patients that certainly meet CDC CFS criteria and all had chronic nasopharyngitis (inflamation at the back of the nasal passage just before it entres the throat).

      They were treated with nasal and throat swabs with 0.5% ZnCl2 solution twice a day. The idea is that it works by ablation, by removing the infected cells.

      I do not know if it is really wise to combine both therapies, but with CFS I am so unwell, houseboud, that I do not feel I have any time to play around. Anyway I saw an ENT and he seemed happy with Dr Osamu Hotta's treatment and did not object to the l sakei - or even discuss it after I mentioned it.

      I have also found that dental probiotics (the kinds others had issues with iflora, therabreath, prodental) seem to help clear my head.

      Reply
  24. Maria

    Hi Sima!

    I came across your post a couple of months ago. I bought kimchi but I haven't dared to try it yet because I'm worried there may be another bacterias on it that could be not so good too (and being the nose so close to the brain...). Do you have any thought about that possibility?? Thanks!

    Reply
    1. Sima

      Yes, there is an entire community of bacteria in kimchi which varies during fermentation - and many batches have beneficial L. sakei from about day 14 to 2 1/2 months. Microbes are all around us and on and in everything (even millions in a glass of tap water).
      Being cautious, I have only used vegan kimchi and a "very messy eater" method. This is self-experimentation so do not do anything you're uncomfortable with.

      Reply
  25. Despina

    Hi there.I was wondering if it would be helpful to ask a healthy person to put some q-tips deep into their nostrils and maybe get some l.sakei sample and then transplant this sample into my nostril?I know it sounds bizarre and gross but why not?

    Reply
    1. Sima

      I think you're basically suggesting a "snot transplant" of the entire sinus microbial community. No studies have done that yet. It would be self-experimentation at this point.

      Reply
      1. Donny

        Hi. Sima Have you found any great sources of L. Rhamnousus to use up nasal? It's apparently great for fungal nasal sinus Infection. Fungal aspergillosis won't go away easy.

        Also, do you think the will be a nasal probotic next year coming that will have all living species wil need. It should be amazing

        Reply
        1. Sima

          Nope - don't know best source or strain of L. rhamnosus to use. Currently it's all self-experimentation. But look for one needing refrigeration and recently produced (better odds of the bacteria being alive).
          Don't know when nasal probiotic sprays will be ready - the clinical trials take a long time.
          But...I suspect that the nasal sprays won't have all the microbes needed for a healthy microbial community - just some that can deal with the current sinusitis infection. Probiotic research shows they tend NOT to stick around (they tend not to colonize) - whether in the sinuses or gut or elsewhere. This is why fecal microbial transplants work - an entire microbial community is transplanted, but ingesting groups of microbes meant for the gut haven't had success.

          Reply
          1. Donny

            Yeah. I've read Of a DYI fecal transplant their sinus improved after. It's all connected to some degree, I wonder how is the average treatment time for Kim chi water snort from people? I've done the past 3 days Twice a day.
            It's been really drying I didn't have any mucus too begin with just heated inflammed . I don't recommend people doing firehouse spicy ginger. Ha. It did help infection but seems to inflam as well. I wanna try sunja mild cucumber that shouldn't cause as much pain n drying.

            Reply
            1. Sima

              Yikes - I just meant that an entire microbial community transplant is probably the best chance of microbes sticking around (perhaps like a snot transplant?).
              Every person treats with a L. sakei product for a different length of time. If you're unsure, why not take a break and see what happens? Re-treat if needed.

              Reply
  26. A. Berryman

    Hi, I have just done 4 days of Kimchi dabbed up the nose and today I have a remarkable change! I had a friend who makes veg. Kimchi and I just have kept the Kimchi on the counter and dab 2 times a day. I will continue this 2 times a day for how long? I am so thankful for this treatment I got pneumonia 3 years ago and took a very strong antibiotic which I would tell anyone not to take it. It took me a year to get my guts back in order. I am not a sickly person at all and that was the first time I had taken antibiotic in I can't remember when I had taken them years ago. Another question yesterday I felt a little more mucus so I dabbed it in the middle of the day and it shut it down. Will this be okay doing an extra dabbing when needed? Thank you for this wonderful treatment! Keep up the good work!

    Reply
    1. Sima

      Good to hear that the kimchi is working for you!
      I would treat with kimchi once or twice a day until feeling "normal", and then cut back and stop until needed again. If the kimchi stops working all of a sudden, it could be because the L. sakei in the kimchi has died off. We found that in commercial brands of kimchi, the L. sakei died off about 6 days after opening the jar - but I don't know about homemade kimchi. It's all self-experimentation.
      Please see Sinusitis Treatment Summary page for more information.

      Reply
  27. Leah

    I used the Lactopy prime a couple of years ago. It was a miracle for me. I had been on massive antibiotics for 5 year for Lyme disease and connective tissue disease. I could not stop the doxy or I got a massive sinus infections. I heard the NPR podcast, searched and found Lactopy Prime. It was shipped in cold packs then, and it was the miracle I needed.
    I mixed a little with distilled water and put it in an empty, but sterilized, pump nasal spray bottle. 2 pumps up each nostril 2x a day. The results were obvious within a couple of hours. And I mean maybe 2 or 3 hours!
    Am trying to get it again. Am trying the email in your March 2016 post. "Thank you"!

    Reply
  28. R. M.

    I've been suffering from chronic sinusitis for about ten years. A few times it's also infected the middle ear or the bronchi also, but thankfully never turned into pneumonia. I tried all of the mainstream techniques, including at least five different oral antibiotics, sinoplasty & septoplasty, allergy treatments (oral, nasal sprays, and desensitization shots), prednisone, you name it. I've also tried a variety of saline nasal rinsers (netipot, squeeze bottles, pulsating washers) and all sorts of additives (Alkalol, grapefruit seed extract, baby shampoo, topical iodine solution, and more!) Nothing brought lasting relief.

    I finally ran across the idea of nasal probiotics a couple of years ago. I had some temporary relief using ERC Probiotics (http://www.ercprobioticenzymes.com/probioticbacteria.html) with one capsule opened and dissolved in about 2oz of distilled water in a reused saline spray bottle (e.g. Ocean.) Shake it up and leave to dissolve 15 minutes, then infuse into both nostrils every few minutes for about 1/2 hour right before bed. Then gargle with the rest, because you can't save it overnight once dissolved.

    That worked pretty well, but it had rough side effects - yellow discharge from the nose and headaches, almost like a mild sinus infection - but then it would clear up and I'd be in good shape for a month or so. Still, it was hard enough on me that I was convinced to keep looking.

    After that experiment, I found this site and tried the kimchi strategy. We have a local Korean grocery store that makes and packs their own fresh kimchi, both cucumber and cabbage varieties. It's not vegan (there's a bit of shrimp) but it works like a charm. I swab a bit of the juice in both nostrils morning and evening, and I usually feel relief within 12 hours and can stop the treatment within 3-5 days. I lasted nearly three months without having to do it again, after the first time, and the side effects were very mild. I'm hoping that over time, like the site owners, I'll be able to reduce the frequency with which I'll need this, but it's already by far the best answer I've yet found.

    Reply
  29. Christine

    Did anybody try the kimchi of the Hosan brand?
    I can't buy it in my neighborhood (West Flanders, Belgium), I could buy Hosan Kimchi online.
    How many cans do you normally need to start this treatment? (Let's say for the first 2 weeks) I have no idea at all about the normal content of prepared kimchi (liquid vs non-liquid). Thanks for all the information!

    Reply
    1. Sima

      I have not had any feedback about Hosan brand kimchi. But...since it is canned with a long shelf life, then it probably is pasteurized - a heat treatment that kills all bacteria, including beneficial Lactobacillus sakei. And rather than garlic (which may be involved with L. sakei), there is "flavor enhancer E621".
      Typically one small jar of "live" fermented kimchi lasts one week, and only a little (a few spoonfuls) of the kimchi juice is used for sinusitis treatment during that week.

      Reply
  30. Sima

    UPDATE: I was just informed by someone that Lactopy Prime can be ordered from Gmarket - an online Korean market. But I don't know if they offer quick shipping.

    Reply
  31. mohammed

    i tried to buy bactuferm from sausagemaker ny buffalo online ,, i have address in the us by ship and shop service which i used to buy things from my us by aramex ,, i made an account in the site thus buy one bactuferm plus ups fee ,, which all costs 21$ ,, msg appeared told me the payment is declined ,, thus another sms to my phone from the bank which told me your card charged for 21$ and no innvoice or anything else appered in my company ,, i tried to msg them ,, no any thing ,, thus they are untrusted and group of thieves

    imp alert
    donnot buy anything from sausagemake.com because they are thieves ,, buy from the shop directly not the site

    Reply
    1. Sima

      No clue why that happened. Perhaps because they only ship it within North America? They are usually a very reliable company.

      Reply
  32. Sheryl

    I read much of this thread, but far from all of it. I'm wondering how I can affordably and reliably get my sinus contents cultured, so I know what I'm dealing with all these years. I'm in the Denver area in the U.S.
    Reading about bad-news staph in the sinuses(not normal skin staph), more prevalent with people around dogs really freaked me out, as dogs have been my livelihood for many years. Frankly too, in the face of this horror show going on politically right now, I am genuinely concerned that if the Affordable Care Act is dismantled and I turn up with a medical record with this nearly untreatable staph that I will become uninsurable. Can I get this tested anonymously? Thank you.

    Reply
    1. Sima

      Sorry, but I don't have any names for you.
      It seems that chronic sinusitis sufferers have microbial communities out of whack - it's not just one strain of bacteria that is bothering them (Bacterial Communities Vary Between the Sinuses In People With Chronic Sinusitis)
      Much current research is just looking at the differences in microbial communities between those with and without sinusitis - there is much they still don't know. It turns out some people have microbes in the nasal passages that are protective against the most pathogenic bacteria such as MRSA (see post). A future probiotic to be used as treatment?

      Reply
  33. mohammed

    have a new valubale source of l.sakei in such days
    read that ,,
    "Yan-jiangis a traditional fermented ginger widely used in Taiwan. It is prepared by two methods, such as with addition of plums and without addition of plums. The ginger (Zingiber officinale Roscoe) was washed, shredded, mixed with salt (NaCl), and layered in a bucket for 2–6 h. After the exuded water is removed, the ginger is mixed with sugar, and pickled plums are added only in method P. Salt and sugar are added to a final concentration of approximately 30–60 g kg−1. Fermentation usually continues for 3–5 days at low temperature (6–10°C), but some producers maintain a fermentation time of 1 week or even longer. Initial fermentation was carried out by Lactobacillus sakei and Lactococcus lactis subsp. Lactis and this species are replaced by Weissella cibaria and L. plantarum at the final stages of fermentation"
    source
    https://www.hindawi.com/journals/btri/2014/250424/

    Reply
  34. Sima

    So far I have not found any evidence for swallowed probiotics (whether in food or capsule) making it to the sinuses. But swishing dissolved probiotics in the mouth may help some people.

    Reply
  35. Phil

    Mayo Clinic Research determined that Fungus Causes Chronic Sinusitis. Fungus-killing friendly bacteria are normally present in your sinuses, but are killed by the use of antibiotics, and/or other means, typically used to treat Sinusitis.

    To naturally eliminate this fungus you must reintroduce those friendly bacteria directly back into your sinuses. Swallowing friendly bacteria will "not" reach the sinuses.

    Reply
    1. Sima

      You are correct about the need to introduce beneficial bacteria into the sinuses.
      However, the Mayo Clinic research proposing that most sinusitis cases were caused by fungi was published in the late 1990s. Since then researchers started using genetic sequencing to look at the microbial communities of the sinuses (sinus microbiome), and that theory is no longer accepted.
      It is now thought that most cases of sinusitis are caused by bacteria and viruses, and only a subgroup are caused by fungi.
      Some pathogenic bacteria involved in sinusitis are: Streptococcus pneumoniae, Haemophilus influenzae, and Staphylococcus aureus (these bacteria can dominate over other bacteria during sinusitis). Antibiotic use, viral infections, etc. can cause microbial inbalances (dysbiosis) in the sinuses.

      Reply
  36. Sima

    As I mention in the post, the L. sakei works to treat sinusitis, but it doesn't stick around in the sinuses. Thus the need to treat again as needed.
    Studies show that in those with sinusitis the microbial community in the sinuses is out of whack (dysbiosis) - with more of some species and with some other species missing - as compared to healthy people (here and here). It is currently unknown if the sinus microbial community can be totally returned to "normal" after years of sinusitis.
    People try different products to see what works best.

    Reply
    1. Sima

      The spices in kimchi seem to have a decongestant effect - perhaps that is what you experienced. Antibiotics for any reason lead to an increase in sinusitis. Sinusitis is more than a loss of L. sakei (see post), but it is hard to figure out what works as a treatment for a person.
      The most conservative method for trying out a L. sakei product such as Lactopy Prime, etc is to swish it in a paste in the mouth (e.g., mixture of Lactopy Prime and bottled water). We (and others) have also done this with a multi-strain probiotic dissolved in bottled water. It's all self-experimentation to see what works. Good luck!

      Reply
    2. Sima

      That is a multi-strain probiotic - see Multistrain Probiotic Treatment Method on the Sinusitis Treatment Summary page for how people report using such a probiotic.
      By the way, that probiotic you mention does not contain Lactobacillus sakei. Perhaps it'll work for you, perhaps not. This is all self-experimentation.

      Reply
    3. Sima

      It sounds like your sinusitis symptoms were related to inflammation.
      A subgroup of sinusitis sufferers can be treated just by lowering inflammation - which is why frequently they can be treated successfully with just a corticosteroid nasal spray (which lowers inflammation). And you did on your own.

      Reply
  37. Nick

    All I can say is Wow! I've battled toxic mold exposure for the past 2 years, thought I was dying, brain fog, dizziness, one side of my face warm, so many Dr appointments. CT of sinus shows nothing, multiple rounds of antibiotics actually made me feel worse. But after 3 days of use, I can think clearly for the first time in forever. Not sure how long I'll have to keep applying but this is nothing short of amazing. Thank you so much for this site!

    Reply
  38. Shelley

    Do you treat only when you have a sinus infection? If you are currently not sick, will using the Bactoferm F-RM-52 be beneficial?

    Reply
    1. Sima

      We, and others, treat only as needed. There is no added benefit to keep using it. The sinuses normally have many bacteria species - not just enormous amounts of L. sakei.

      Reply
      1. Shelley Martin

        What do you suggest to avoid when treating. For example, supplements and OTC drugs...as well as prescriptions?
        Also, which of the options do you suggest work the most and fastest? For example, I see where you said look at the exp date on the kimchee. Of it is expired, do you throw it away? Why do you buy six bottles at a time? Of you don't see a difference in one bottle working two days, do you try another?
        Also, do you suggest not going to an ENT or getting any procedures/allergy shots? If anyone got allergy shots, will that effect the results?
        I have had sinus issues for a long time, but two years ago, they got so bad. I was getting hard, bloody mucus caught in my throat. Its happened 3-4 times. I am going to the ENT for the first time today. I don't know what to expect, but I'm not positive...just desperate.
        Sorry for all the questions.

        Reply
        1. Sima

          We only avoid medications that kill bacteria and other microbes. We take allergy meds, pain killers (aspirin, etc), Mucinex 12 hour (for phlegm/mucus thinning), etc as needed.
          Probiotics, including L. sakei, do not have any effect on allergies (unfortunately).
          We have not had the need to go to an ENT for 4 years because we feel fine. L. sakei took care of all sinusitis symptoms.
          Each jar of kimchi is its own fermentation factory - thus the variability. We keep extras around in case we get ill or need to treat again.
          It's all self-experimentation.

          Reply
  39. Shelley Martin

    Ok. I just want to make sure I totally understand the process. The product has an expiration date. You believe that the item was made six? Months prior to the expiration date. Kimchee has L. sakei for only two to three months. So, if I bought a product dated 6/30/2017, you would suggest it be consumed by 4/30/2017 because that is the time frame you've realized the L. sakei to be active?
    If this is better by email, please let me know. I just want to do this right.

    Reply
    1. Sima

      These are very general guidelines. We have found that the closer the kimchi is to the date it was made - say from day 14 to the end of the month, the more L. sakei it has. So we buy new kimchi at the store just to have it around in case. But one can eat the kimchi for months and months.

      Reply
  40. Shelley Martin

    So, the best days to use the kimchee is 14-30 days from when it was made? And the expiration date represents six months from prep date?

    Reply
      1. Shelley Martin

        Thanks for all of your information. I've been really stressed about my sinuse infection and I went to an ENT yesterday. He said that I had silent reflux and acute sinusitis. I had already been to my PCP last week and had been on antibiotics for six days. He showed me the video of my throat. It was nasty. So now I have Reflux to deal with also. Did you or your family members have any reflux issues along with sinus issues?

        Reply
  41. Long Term Sinus sufferer

    Hi Everyone - any thoughts on these two products. Desperate to try this but a bit scared of the Fermented cabbage or Sausage product 🙂

    http://www.liviaglobal.com/store/index.php/probiotic-topical-skin-ringworm-mrsa-staph-rash-infection-yeast-organic.html Does say Nasal/Sinus infection but also says external use.

    Or

    https://www.p2probioticpower.com/why-probiotics/ Looks like the key item is there as well and does state you can inhale it?

    Reply
  42. Long Term Sinus sufferer

    I tried to post this earlier but anyone got any feedback on two US Spray probiotics?

    P2 http://www.p2probioticpower.com/p2-i-help-you-breathe-allergy-asthma-sinus-relief-spray-14-oz-multi-room-size/ I did think it was in this but was mistaken. Their does seem to be a growing amount of Probiotic cleaners and topical sprays but this is the only one I could find that specifically encouraged inhalation! If it wasn't $50 to post to the UK I would give it a try but $75 for one can seems a bit too far for an experiment.

    Anyway having only speed read page - I went back and read some more and found someone in the UK had a success with a UK Brand (made not 10 miles from me) and I have ordered the Standard one and Vegan one. The standard one had fish in it, so not sure about that going my nose!?

    I will come back with how I get on, and if I can get the canned P2 one reduced postage I will give that a go too.

    Thanks for a great page BTW - Been suffering with Sinus issues for 6 years any relief will be welcome!

    Reply
    1. Sima

      Thanks for the link. Interesting idea, but at this point don't know if they have any benefit or it's all marketing.
      The P2 probiotic power product you mention is meant to be sprayed on upholstered furnishings. The spray container says it contains a "proprietary blend of probiotics" and "proprietary organic scents", but does not give details, and using the "organic" term without being approved by an organic governing body means nothing. Scents or fragrances can contain many chemicals and be incredibly irritating. Elsewhere on the site they mention bacterial strains they may use in their products - they are the same ones found in many multi-strain probiotic supplements, but they don't include Lactobacillus sakei and Lactobacillus rhamnosus.
      They discuss biofilms as always negative, but biofilms can also be beneficial. For example, one study found that the majority of healthy people also have biofilms in their sinuses, another that L. reuterii can form beneficial biofilms in the gut.

      When buying kimchi, just make sure it is "alive" and not pasteurized (pasteurization kills off all microbes).

      Reply
  43. Long Term Sinus sufferer

    I actually saw the last comment on this post yesterday https://chriskresser.com/chronic-sinus-problems-another-role-for-probiotics/ from someone who tried it with success but I am not 100% sure it wasn't positive marketing being used!! All the reviews on the spray are sinus related.

    If you read the detail on the product in the link I gave it doesn't mention scents and does say safe to Spray in ears and nose.

    They have not got back to me with a better deal on postage, I can get 14 bottles of Alkalol from the USA via DHL for $35 inc UK tax and duties - one can sent for $50 seems way too much.

    Anyway my local Kimichi is on its way, I assume the one with the Fish Sauce is not one I should try? Stick to the Vegan one

    Reply
    1. Sima

      The link you gave says "proprietary scents" on the product label (look at the label photo).
      My personal preference is vegan kimchi - I've never tried a fish sauce one.

      Reply
  44. Long Term Sinus sufferer

    Oh hadn't spotted that - even less interested.

    I see Hansen have applied for a Sausage product that is just L.Sakei B2 Safepro http://wpage.unina.it/giamauri/Materiale_vario/Starter%20commerciali/Chr.%20Hansen/Carne/Bioprotective%20Cultures/B2%20SafePro.pdf

    Also a European manufacturer of L.Sakei AB Sakei 65 for use in Dermatitis, although not clear if it is for sale, under trial or just something they would produce under own label. http://www.ab-biotics.com/products/probiotics/dermatology-immunology/ab-sakei-65.html

    My Mr Kimchi arrived today, just had a fair bit of dental work yesterday so will leave it until next week to try.

    Sorry to keep posting but I do find this subject so fascinating although frustrating that it doesn't appear to have been picked and run with by the Pharmaceutical industry. I would assume any product that is sprayed in the nose has go through a lot testing before it can be sold as a natural remedy, hence why no smaller nasal product companies have tried it.

    Reply
    1. Sima

      Thanks for the information.
      I know that two groups of researchers (in US and Europe) are doing clinical trails for nasal sprays with L.sakei and other probiotics in it.
      The B-2 has been available for years in some countries, but not the USA.

      Reply
    2. Ally

      Did Mr Kimchi work?

      I live in the UK and have asked them via Amazon UK if they have L Sakei but I'm not sure they do by their response.

      If its worked for you then I'll consider buying some.

      Thanks

      Reply
      1. Sima

        Ally: L. sakei is naturally occurring in kimchi, especially from garlic (see post). It is NOT added at any point. So kimchi manufacturers would not know - would need to do lab tests at precisely the right time in fermentation.

        Reply
    1. Sima

      The Dragon Herb looks interesting, but I have not heard anything about it. Please let me know what you think if you try it.
      A number of the products I mention in the post are available in Europe - perhaps do a Google search to see what can be bought in Norway. And perhaps someone is selling live fermented kimchi in Norway.

      Reply
  45. Jan Datomi

    Hi: I have been using Kimchi for about a month now, and have seen really good improvement with my sinuses. I have been using kimchi once or twice a day. I am wondering at what point should I reduce the usage? Should I now go to as needed or do should I continue with the daily doses now that my sinuses seem clear. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

    Reply
  46. Kmac

    Something fabulously disgusting happened to me this morning, using the kimchi!
    For two years I have had a constant runny nose and a bad smell in my nose. In desperation I finally went to an ENT specialist who took a culture which showed Staph and Fungus. She put me on oral steriods and antibiotics, which made me feel miserable and did nothing. Next they wanted to do a cat scan and surgery. In desperation, I tried the kimchi idea posted here. I have been doing it for 2 weeks with no result. Then this morning the fabulously disgusting thing happened! I had used kimchi last night. This morning I tried using a saline spray. When I sprayed, I felt a horrible glob shoot like a rocket through my sinuses into my throat. I then pulled an inch round nasty glob of grey/green fungus from my mouth. It smelled like a dead body. Other than feeling like I need to gargle with bleach :), I am thrilled. My theory is that the kimchi loosened the fungal ball but it was too big to come out my nose, so it needed the spray to wash it out the other way. I am going to keep up the treatment for awhile and make sure I got it all. I am thrilled to think I avoided surgery with this!!

    Reply
    1. Sima

      Amazing story! A 2005 study found five Lactobacillus species in kimchi that are anti-fungal: Lactobacillus cruvatus, L. lactis, L. casei, L. pentosus, and L. sakei. More recent studies of kimchi found even more antifungal species (such as L. plantarum).

      Reply
  47. Richard

    Hi, I am not quite sure where to add this but you mention various brands of kimchi.

    I am in Australia and the one I have been finding useful is kehoe's kitchen white kimchi http://kehoeskitchen.com/white-kimchi/ .

    My jar has a used by date for mid January 2018, so I am guessing it was 7 weeks old when I started using it.

    Reply
    1. A.K

      Hey Richard
      How much has the white kimchi helped you? Was your nasal passages much more clear after you used it?
      Thanks!

      Reply
      1. Richard

        I have found it more effective than the b2.

        I have been doing a combined treatment of fluconazole (antifungal), epipharyngeal swabbing with .5% zinc chloride solution (to remove infected cells and promote cell growth) and probiotics.

        I am a little different to people above in that a I have CFS and chronic migraine (and it seems that the symptoms of chronic sinusitus were missed because the lighheadedness, brain fog, pain and other symptoms were explained by the other two diagnoses).

        I started looking at my sinuses after got improvements in my mental clarity and reduced lightheadedness when taking dental probiotics (prodental, therabreath, iflora and life extension foundation). And read an article on the resolution of CFS in some japanese patients following treatment for chronic nasopharyngytis. https://sci-hub.ac/10.1007/s12026-016-8859-x

        So I started on nasal swabbing, then swabing plus lactopy; then swabbing plus b2, then swabbing plus b2 plus fluconazole, then swabbing plus kimchi juice plus fluconazole. Part of Dr Osamu Hotta's approach was to swab the back of the throat so I have also been doing that throughout, and I have also been taking dental probiotics and gargling from time to time.

        The lactopy seemed to make a big change in mental clarity at first and to make headaches and sinus pressure worse at first (I asumed a war was going on) I used it sniffed from a spoon and in a nasal rinse. And it seemed to work best at very large doses.

        I switched to B2 when I ran out because it comes with an ice brick in a styrofoam package, so it seemed a better bet. And it was in as or perhaps slightly more effective. but my nasal swabs were still coming back bloody, mostly severe on osamu hotta's scale.

        Adding fluconazole seemed to take me to mostly moderate on osamu hotta's scale(ocassionally severe and clear once or twice. Then the kimchi juice has made it mild or clear. I have also gone from using nasal rinses with half a lactopy scoup of b2 twice a day to using a simple saline rinse every second day - or therabouts I just do it when I feel the need.

        So the picture is complicated but this brand of kimchi seems effective. When I last went to the shop they only had the traditional (medium heat) kimchi, so it is what I started using yesterday and I do not recommend - even though I will have to use it - because the chilli is a bit too much.

        Reply
        1. Sima

          It is interesting that you report improvement with the dental probiotics Prodental and Therabreath. Both contain BLIS K12 (Streptococcus salivarius)- which 4 people (including myself) found to cause sinusitis symptoms from the first day it was taken and during the next few weeks.
          Kimchi is an interesting and complex product with an assortment of microbes.

          Reply
          1. Richard

            Sima,

            I started after reading this post http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/oral-probiotics-to-clear-your-head.42606/#post-689976

            On phoenixrising there is also a recent thread about someone getting a major improvement with strepsils which are oral antiseptic lozenges.

            I also got an improvement from using vicks under my nose, but have stopped using it as it is antimicrobial and could for all I know harm the l sakei. (Though of course l. sakei is useful because it is also antimicrobial.)

            My experience was that I did get a lot of phlegm, tonnes of it, and quite a lot of pain/inflamation in my throat and lungs. But I also got a lot an improvement in other (CFS) symptoms, and the symptoms of pain/inflammation and increased phlegm passed or became less severe.

            My sense at the time was that my sinuses were a resevoir of bad microbes that was fighting the new bacteria. I have no idea if this was so. But I have had over a decade of not being able to produce stomach acid or sufficient bile, and consequently I have had no real barrier to stop bacteria from entering my gut.

            I did think that some of the improvement could have been what the dental probiotics were doing in the gut, but a yoghurt made with them did nothing for me, so I think it was their impact on the microbiome of the throat, mouth and sinuses.

            I need a time machine to go back and collect samples, a laboratory to run the tests and someone who really understands all this stuff to do the thinking for me.

            Reply
        2. A.K

          Hey Richard
          Thanks for all the information :). I'm from Sydney, Australia. Recently I have tried using the Peace, Love Vegetables Kimchi brand. It didn't really help much. Later I found out that they only ferment the kimchi for a few days before they refrigerate it. That doesn't seem to be the case with the Kehoes kimchi brand though as they said they ferment for up to 12 weeks . I'll give them a go and see how it works out

          Reply
          1. A.K

            I'm currently trying out B-2 , on my third day now. A lot of dry nose and sinuses,but no nasal passage clearing yet although my ear aches have gone away.

            Reply
            1. Richard

              I could say that the most amazing change has been the way I can now just pour a teaspoon of kimchi juice diluted in boiled and cooled water in my nostril and find it just flows straight through to my throat.

              Throughout the lactopy, the b2 and maybe the first 5 or 6 days of kimchi use this was impossible. I just accepted that the only way to get it in was to either hold a spoon to my nostril and inhale deeply, or do so with one nostril covered. Then sometime on the weekend I tipped a spoon back and it just poored through without needing any assistance.

              So the congestion that had gone on for so long I thought it normal has obviously improved.

              Actually earlier on there was something similar on the lactopy when I found that I did not have to exert much force to inhale. There was this weird thing where I was getting vast amounts of air for little effort from my diaphragm. It was nice but really really odd.

              If I ever get well I am sure I will think I am posessing some alien's body.

              Reply
  48. Nazal Craze

    It is amazing that same story is almost across the world with sinus issues. I am from Russia and there is an informal community of similar kind for those, who suffer chronic sinus infections for multiple years. They also share all possible things often pretty extravagant (though need to say, that examples i read here are way more creative). Any way, one of the sufferers also came to a conclusion about probiotics and even wrote a book, which he sells for a moderate cost and now there is a whole site (russian only): http://cc-t1.ru/kniga_o_prichinah_lor_zabolevanij_i_prostud.html

    difference is that he promotes Propionibacterium Bacteria (which is not calssical probiotic, but generally very similar thing) and a specifc product, which does look some sort of MLM. + it takes efforts to prepare it (almost alchemy) and resembles some sort of yogort in the end. However, few report that it works for them and some claim that they cured infection completely. Based on my experience it didn't work though.

    Simply amazing how worldwide people suffer preety similar shit, but looks like everywhere people are looking into probiotics. Just wanted to share with you. Keep up!

    Reply
  49. David

    A shout out to Richard, I too have the same diagnosis and participate on both Phoenix Rising and Health Rising. The post you referenced, I had saved.

    Anyway I've got several small nasal sprayers that allow me to mix and spray, Has anyone diluted the kimchi and nasaly sprayed the mix?

    Reply
    1. Sima

      I wouldn't do that simply because I think it would be irritating due to the spices and garlic in the kimchi. If the kimchi contains L. sakei, then dabbing/smearing the juice works just fine (the bacteria travel up to the sinuses on their own). One never knows if a new jar contains L. sakei or not - and this way it's also being cautious.

      Reply
      1. Dan

        Sima,

        when you procure kimchi do you mail order or buy from a store? If you order direct from Sunja's do you order multiple jars?? Do they ship new batches each time? Do they ship in a manner that maintains the kimchi's temperature?

        It seems crucial to get kimchi which was has been made in last month or two. Most kimchi in the store has been sitting there a while. I got some Sunja's mild white yesterday dated to 'expire' 12/15/17, so I don't think its new enought to contain much L. sakei, may some other beneficial lacto bio, who knows. I'm on the second day of dabbing/smearing. Debating ordering some direct from Sunja in the hope they send fresher kimchi.
        Any feedback would be great,

        Thanks,
        Dan

        Reply
        1. Sima

          I prefer to buy from a local store (cheaper, easier), but I've also ordered directly from the maker. Kimchi is initially kept at room temperature to get the fermentation process going, but after that is refrigerated. I usually buy several jars to always have extra "just in case" they're needed.
          If you order - specify that you get the most recent batch. Unfortunately it's all self-experimentation to see if a jar has L. sakei in it. Perhaps some other kimchi brand may also work for you.

          Reply
  50. Ernst

    What about milk kefir? Could I put kefir up my nose and have similar effects? is it dangerous? Thanks! Awesome site

    Reply
    1. Sima

      I have not seen any reports of kefir containing Lactobacillus sakei- so I wouldn't expect it to treat sinusitis. On the other hand, there are other probiotic species of bacteria in it (including Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Streptococcus thermophilus, Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus, Lactobacillus helveticus, Lactobacillus kefiranofaciens, Lactococcus lactis, and Leuconostoc species, according to Wikipedia) - perhaps it may be of benefit to someone, but that is unknown right now. Again, self-experimentation may answer that question.

      Reply
  51. A mother, again

    On oct 31 2016, I developed a cold that became a sinus infection and never went away. After 4 courses of antibiotics, 2 courses of oral steroids and sinus surgery in April, I was sicker than ever. Yesterday I applied kimchi and I could notice less swelling in the symptomatic turbinate. Let's see how it goes. You took theory and put it to practice. You're unbelievable. Words can't thank you enough.

    Reply
  52. Sarah Elliott

    I first read your information about a year ago, and after several attempts at getting fresh kimchi (but not too fresh) I also tried a probiotic brand called Elixa (http://www.elixa-probiotic.com). While intended for intestinal support, my sinus cavities are the traitors of my body. When I start to feel pressure in my sinuses, I use one capsule, opened and mixed with water then swabbed in my nose. It is not as instantly effective as the kimchi was when I found a fresh batch but it seems to break down whatever is accumulating in my sinuses.

    Thank you for all your work and gathering information here. It is really a deviation from the anti-biotic model of care.

    Reply
  53. Nic

    Thank you very much for that site. I used the van hees product you mentioned once, and I think it works for me. I am in europe. I am still experimenting with it, two month ago it stopped the yellow mucus and I got healthy after about 5 days.
    Now, as my whole family is fighting a cold, i am using a new package and didn't get the cold yet. Usually i am the first to get it if my son is sick. Do you think it also helps prevent from a normal virus?
    Anyway, many thanks for your great and informative site. You really are doing something very helpful and you seem to be perfectly good informed.

    Reply
    1. Sima

      What we found in my family of 4 people is that once the chronic sinusitis was gone, than we became much more resistant to viruses - we were healthier overall. Your results match ours.

      Reply
  54. Attila

    Do you think that l. sakei from the B-2 culture can erdaicate the streptococcus installed in the tonsils which are travelling to sinuses and back? Medics recomended to cut my tonsils smaller. I also have chronic sinusitis because of the strep installed here. I found a local dealer in Romania for the B-2 starter culture.

    Reply
    1. Sima

      Possibly, because L. sakei is anti-bacterial.
      When trying out the B-2, I would also swish it around in the mouth since your tonsils are also involved.

      Reply
  55. Patrick

    Has anyone in the US tried Nasobiotex? It is a Lactobacillus Sakei powder sold as a probiotic. They ship in an insulated package with two ice packs - but only to US addresses.

    Reply
    1. Allan

      I am attempting to order Nasobiotex directly from their website, not from amazon. So far, their customer service is excellent, they have emailed me back twice to try and arrange shipping to Canada! I hope they can FedEx or UPS some soon. This product seems really promising.

      Reply
      1. Patrick

        I would appreciate it if you would provide an update or two - on the shipping, and on its effectiveness. I too, live in Canada. In November I plan to visit a friend in North Dakota - so I want to have some shipped to him and bring it across the border myself. Are they talking about overnight delivery to Canada?

        Reply
      2. Sima

        Initial reports (of people that have tried various L. sakei products) are that this product is very mild (weak). Also, one person reported that the L. sakei had died off by the fourth time they used it (in one week's time).

        Reply
        1. Patrick

          Thank you for the update on Nasobiotex. It makes me want to try Bactoferm F-RM-52 instead. Is it possible to order it with two-day shipping to Canada?

          Reply
          1. Sima

            I suggest looking up sausage-making suppliers in Canada(google it) to find one that carries Bactoferm F-RM-52 or B-2 (both are starter cultures). Also, perhaps refrigerated live kimchis are locally available? Only through self-experimentation can one figure out what works, which varies from person to person.

            Reply
  56. Jacqui

    "Some researchers are focusing on Lactobacillus sakei, L. rhamnosus, L. plantarum, L. casei, and L. Johnsonii in the treatment of sinusitis and sinus health"

    I found a cultured drink that has the following:

    Bacillus Coagulans
    L. Rhamnosus
    L. Plantarum
    L. Paracasei

    Thinking I may use this as well, in a "messy eater" kind of way. Any thoughts?

    Reply
    1. Sima

      Of course one can try it - it would be self-experimentation.
      Another possibility (again self-experimentation) is opening a multi-strain probiotic, putting the powder on the tongue, swishing it in the mouth, and then swallowing (and not drinking or eating anything else for a little while).

      Reply
  57. brian

    Has anyone experienced Kimchi to bring back sense of smell due to 4 months of sinusitis? I've completely lost my sense of smell after this long and latest spell of sinusitis. My air passages are clear (breathing not problem) but deep sinus are still phlemmed with clear mucus. Trying to make it go away and then focus on lost smell.

    Reply
  58. Terri

    Chris,

    Or anyone on this blog. I have a question about a certain company that sells their product called multi-strain probiotic by InnovixLabs, they sell it in a capsule form.
    I was wondering if you can take the powder out and mix it with a little bit of water and swish it around in your mouth at night time just before laying down at night. I am hoping you can do it that way. Has anyone ever done this with this product that had the sakei in it. My husband has sinusitis and he has numerous sinus surgeries, and this last sinus surgery, was extremely painful, they had to grind down bone in his nose in order for him to breathe correctly. He had calcium buildup on one side. He has had countless sinus infections. He has had polyps removed from his sinuses. He has been on all kinds of sprays and and allergy pills,
    Sinus rinses, all of that helps for a while and then he gets a sinus infection, and just a few weeks ago,he was on antibiotics for bronchitis. My husband will not put a paste or anything up in his nose with out his ENT doctors advice. Thanks.

    Reply
    1. Sima

      Of course one can just swish probiotic powder mixed with water (non-chlorinated) in the mouth or just put the powder right on the tongue. Some people have experienced positive results, some say no effect. It's all self-experimentation. All probiotics can be tried that way.
      See the post above for some issues raised about the multi-strain Innovix Labs probiotic.

      Reply
  59. James

    I remember kimchee from one of the old M*A*S*H episodes. I have been putting the powder from Ultimate Flora 90 billion cultures up my nose with a q tip and saline soln. After reading your replies I shall switch to bottled water or distilled water. Question. Is L. casei in sake and how could that be used?
    Thanks for all of your insight.

    Reply
    1. Sima

      My understanding is that Lactobacillus sakei is used to start fermentation in making sake, but don't know if L. casei is also involved.

      Reply

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